Dictation 2 Spaces After Period

Submitted by bjaffeblueledge on Tue, 02/11/2020 - 15:47
Forums: 
Bugs in content types

We just upgraded our LMS which included an upgrade to the latest version of H5P. 

Now we are seeing an issue with the dictation H5P type not workign with 2 spaces after the period. 

Has anyone experienced the same issue or have a fix? 

I have attached the H5P and screen captures. In this H5P export it is the middle sentence that is the issue. 

H5P file: 
Binary Data More-Times-Exercise.h5p
Attachments: 
Image icon Dictation 1.PNG
Image icon Dication 2.PNG
otacke's picture

otacke

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 17:22

Hi bjaffeblueledge!

This can be changed, of course, but why do you use two spaces in the first place?

Best,
Oliver

bjaffeblueledge

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 17:29

We are using the exercises to teach proper sentence structure and grammar. We opertate in the legal industry which requires 2 spaces after a period, question mark or colon.  We need to follow the rules set out by the American Association of Electronic Reporters and Transcribers and Morson's English Guide. 

otacke's picture

otacke

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 17:33

Hi bjaffeblueledge!

So you actually have a feature request (to support two spaces for a particular scenario), not a bug report.

Best,
Oliver

bjaffeblueledge

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 17:36

To me this is a bug because it worked perfectly before the upgrade so soemthing that has been done with the latest version has cause this as a bug. 

bjaffeblueledge

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 17:31

I should also point out that this was working perfectly before our upgrade with two spaces after a punctuation. Something for the update changed this. 

otacke's picture

otacke

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 17:49

Hi bjaffeblueledge!

I don't see how an update of H5P would change the behavior of the content type Dictation that has only been released in December 2018 and never been updated since unless you had some form of patch yourself that was overridden.

Best,
Oliver

bjaffeblueledge

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 17:56

I am not sure. We did not implement any patch ourselves. 

My only GUESS is that somehting changed with the install of the new version of Hub that the LMS provided installed during our upgrade. Maybe something php or script based. This definately worked last week. Could it be looking at a library that changed? Sorry I am not a code guy I am an LMS admin and course designer.  

I am not even sure why multiple spaces would cause an issue. It should just be doing some form of direct character comparison, one space or 10 should be allowed.  

otacke's picture

otacke

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 18:16

Hi bjaffeblueledge!

As I said: I don't know anything that could cause a change in behavior apart from patches. PHP plays no role once a content type is running.

There's no direct character comparion as Dictation need to split the sentence into chunks (words and punctuation symbols) so it can show the learner where there's a mistake and to compute the score. Since I am not a member of the Association you mentioned, I was not aware that multiple spaces could even be a thing required somewhere - so to me it's still a feature request :-P

Best,
Oliver

bjaffeblueledge

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 18:03

I see in the link you provided a language file that has been updated multiple times in the last few months. That file seems to impact a lot of the H5P types. Could that have caused the issue? We had not updated our LMS since the summer, maybe July. 

otacke's picture

otacke

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 18:19

Hi!

Where do you see an update of the language file of Dictation in the list (which would have to be done by a regular content type update)? Whatever - an update of the language file would not cause that behavior.

Cheers,
Oliver

otacke's picture

otacke

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 18:33

Changed. When this is released officially is up to the H5P core team, not to me.

bjaffeblueledge

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 18:37

Thank you Oliver.  I do not want the multiple spaces to be ignored, I want then to be evaluated.

If a student puts one space and it should be two I want them counted off. 

Your title seems to indicate this would be ignored. 

otacke's picture

otacke

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 18:45

That'll require more time that I don't have to spare right now.

bjaffeblueledge

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 19:34

Understood. I appreciate your help. 

How can I get someone on the Core Team to help with that or atleast review your changes and implement? 

Thank you again, you have given me a lot of insight. 

BV52's picture

BV52

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 19:38

Hi bjaffeblueledge,

The core team checks, reviews and publishes changes to content types that are contributed by the community. In terms of time frame I cannot provide you with any.

-BV

otacke's picture

otacke

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 20:04

Hi!

What BV said :-) However, I know that Dictation may be somewhere on the top of the pile, so I'll try to find some time for the changes, but I have earn my living, too.

The problem is that spaces have simply been used as separators so far. You'd either have to change the data structure and the functions using them, or you'll have to find a workaround. There may even be one, but then the solution display will be kind of inconsistent (simply not counting and displaying spaces where expected, but showing omissions or additions and counting those as mistakes). Then this should probably be changed, too. And then you'd have to have a new option for counting/not counting spaces - or you'd change the scoring for existing content ...

That'd take some time ...

Best,

Oliver 

bjaffeblueledge

Tue, 02/11/2020 - 20:08

Thank you Oliver and I agree making a living is important. 

What baffles me it that it was working before and now it is not. It is like there is a change in a file that is being referenced. Either way I appreciate your time and help. 

 

 

papi Jo's picture

papi Jo

Wed, 02/12/2020 - 11:35

Before reading your post here I had never ever heard of this matter of "2 spaces after a full stop, etc.". I learnt typing when I was at school, back at the end of the 1950s, on an Underwood typewriter. Then I owned a number of mechanical and then electric and electronic typewriters, and then computers. I have been on a number of scientific journals editorial staff, typed my PhD thesis with MS Word, and have followed scrupulously the spelling and typographical rules. Again never heard of double spaces. It must be an American thing, dating back to the age of typewriters, and never updated in the very conservative environment of US legal "industry".

There are quite a few discussions on the Internet re this question, and I quite agree with this Slate article: "Typing two spaces after a period is totally, completely, utterly, and inarguably wrong."

I certainly disagree that not accounting for double spaces in the H5P Dictation content is a "bug". On the contrary, this little event should be a good opportunity for you to shake up the dusty rules of the US legal "industry" and bring them into the 21st century.

bjaffeblueledge

Wed, 02/12/2020 - 15:37

Hi Papi Jo, 

Both you professional and academic experience is impressive and I can understand where you are coming from. In my everyday life I do not use two spaces after a period. As a child I was taught both ways so it must be an North America thing, I say that because I know Canadians who also do two spaces after a period. 

That being said we can not just shake up and entire multi-billion dollar industry. Two spaces after a period is written in some states laws for formatting a legal transcript as well as is the standard at which our students are graded from the national certifying body. If we were to teach them only one space then they would surely fail the test which has a passing score of 98% or higher. As a training center we must train to the national exam. 

I have called this a bug because it worked "correctly," be it the way we need it to work, previously. Maybe the fact it was working previously was the bug, but we would like that bug reinstated. Be it a bug or a feature it is still an issue for our students. 

I appreciate your comments and the time you took to write and research the issue. I know it is an unsusal issue, but one we hope gets fixed. 

papi Jo's picture

papi Jo

Wed, 02/12/2020 - 18:29

Thanks for your reply, and for not taking umbrage at my rather abrupt comment! I quite understand that you have to "obey the rules", even though those antiquated rules need to be changed.

I hope a solution can be found so you can continue use the great H5P Dictation activity.

bjaffeblueledge

Wed, 02/12/2020 - 19:39

I don't make the rules we only teach people to pass an exam based on them. 

I hope a solution can be found too. We built numerous dication exercises for our students to use that are now affected.