How to tracking student performance now ?

Hello,

Sorry to bother you again. I noticed a change that has a very high importance on how we use H5P .

Initially, when the solution was consulted , it was impossible to repeat the exercise again. Now a student may be entirely false exercise, find answers , and again the entirely just beginning. Is there a way to return to the first version ?

It is essential for tracking student performance.

thank you for listening

Lorin Walter - http://classe-numerique.fr

 

Hi Lorin !

I was about to write my reply in french but it would be impolite on this english spoken forum, so english it is :)

I'm testing the H5P WP plugin since about a week so I don't know about the way the plugin worked before. By "when the solution was consulted, it was impossible to repeat the exercise again", do you mean that before if the student had pressed the "Show the solution" button, then he couldn't press the "Retry" button to re-do the exercise ? If so, that was a pretty cool feature indeed... I'm guessing that you have upgraded your H5P libraries and that is the reason why things works differently now ?

All I can think of is that when you create a content in H5P, you can check / uncheck the "Show the solution" button and the "Retry" button to display or hide these buttons at the end of the quiz. As for me, I disable the "Show the solution" button but I enable the "Retry" button so that my students can try again and again until they find the solution.

By the way, I was talking about you in an other thread on this very forum the other day : https://h5p.org/comment/3917#comment-3917 (yep, you are the "french teacher" I mentioned). I was wondering how you managed to display the student's results outside of the WP admin. By default, the results can only be accessed in WP admin to logged users through the WP admin bar / Dashboard. But many teachers (including me) don't want their students to access the WP admin bar nor the WP Dashboard. They would rather display their results on a front-end page.

I'm guessing that you have developed a piece of code to manage that ? Would you be willing to share your wisdom with the rest of us ? ;)

Greetings,

Isabelle

do you mean that before if the student had pressed the "Show the solution" button, then he couldn't press the "Retry" button to re-do the exercise ? If so, that was a pretty cool feature indeed... 

Yes at all !

If I don't accept to see the solution, it's ok. And I will do this. But I liked that's student could see the answers, at the end.

falcon's picture

Seems Realia has provided a solid answer here :) I'm not sure what kind for change this is. Is it in question set?

It's for all I use : fill in the blank, mark the word, drag and drop text...

falcon's picture

That is strange. I can't remember that we've made any changes related to this. What did you update when this change happened? I guess you're using "Save content state"?

I downloaded new versions of the exercises, including visual change of the result with the result bar which fills.

Maybe it's me who can not remember how it was before. I was convinced that a student who answered could not do the exercise again forever.

Before, the answers given by the student remains enrolled and it was not possible to change. Thus giving it access to the answer was not disturbing.

 

For now, I'll turn off the solution.

 

Thank you

Hi Lorin,

I see what you mean. And now that I've looked into it, I think that there is something weird in the way the activities work when we check the "Save the content state" setting.

Let's say that I create a fill-in-the-blanks activity with the following settings :

  • I enable the "Show the solution" button
  • I disable the "Retry" button
  • I check "Save the content state" in the H5P settings with a frequency set to 3 seconds

The way the plugin should work, in my understanding, should be as follow :

  • The student fills the blanks and click the "Check" button (screen1)
  • His score is displayed along with the "Show the solution" button (no "retry" button since I've disabled it) (screen2)
  • The student clicks the "Show the solution" button to learn from his mistakes
  • The solution is displayed. Below there is no "Retry" button, no "Show the solution" button - well, no buttons at all (screen3)
  • The student leaves the exercise, go and do some other activities...
  • ... and when he comes back to this exercise, he should find it in the final state that he left it : with his score displayed and no buttons, as in screen3.

But... this is not what happens : when the students comes back to the exercise, he finds his previous answers prefilled along with a new "Check" button and he can change his previous answers and retry the exercise (and of course, as he already knows the solution, this is really easy to get it right this time) : screen4. In my mind (and I think that it is in yours too), the student shouldn't be able to retry the exercise as I have checked the "Save the content state" and disabled the "Retry" button. He should find the exercise in the state that he left it that is screen3.

The "Multichoice question" activity works in the same way : if the student leaves the page and comes back to it, he actually CAN retry the exercise and modify his previous answers allthough he has already displayed the solution. It is indeed not the way I expect the plugin to work with these combined settings (Show the solution + No retry + save content state).

I guess that my question is : is this a "bug" ? Or is it the way the plugin is designed to work ? If someone from the core team could throw some light there, it would ease my mind :)

From this, I conclude that the "Retry" button combined with the "Save the content state" setting doesn't work the way that we think and that we would like it to be. You can't have it both : "Show the solution" and prevent students from retrying an exercise that they already have done once. So, I think that if you want to use H5P as an assessment tool and to track the students performance, you have to disable the "Show the solution" button - unless I got it all  wrong !...

Greetings,

Isabelle

 

 

Hello Isabelle,

 

Yes that's it.

(Unlike with the retry button it should proceed in the same way: we can try again, but when the solution is seen, it has no access to retry button, which was before).

 

Regarding the "save the content" ... with 3 seconds which you speak. I have absolutely not find where it is. Where you tick this box?

 

Originally, in fact, the results remained frozen if they had already completed the exercise by clicking "solution" (and that it was connected with a wordpress user account).

 

  (Sorry for my english google translation)

falcon's picture

Hi,

I'm afraid Isabelle's described behavior isn't a bug, but by design. Save content state saves the answer you've added to the questions. It does not save if you are showing the solution etc. The main purpose of save content state is to allow students to resume in big course presentations for instance, but the plan is also to expand it in the future to save the entire state the way you describe here that you want it to do.

As a technical side note: If you have access to programmers you may make H5P content completely unavailable after the user has made his first attempt by leveraging xAPI.

 

Thanks Falcon for throwing some light here ! I was not sure that I completely understood the "Save content state" setting. I get it now.
I think that it would be great indeed to be able to save the entire state of an exercise for assessing students performance.
I may be able to ask some help to a programmer to make H5P content completely unavailable after the first attempt. If we succeed, I'll gladly share the code here ;)

falcon's picture

"save content state" setting is in the H5P settings, only accessible by administrators.
falcon's picture

Also note that the 3 seconds setting shouldn't be necessary. It will just generate a lot more traffic to your site. The system saves the state automatically every time a question is answered, a slide is turned in CP and when a user closes the page. The regular content state saving is only useful as a fail safe in case the user looses his connection in the middle of an exercise or something like that.

Again thanks for the great advice ! I didn't find any tip about this setting in the documentation. It is worth knowing that the system saves the state automatically at some point (after a question is answered, a slide is turned, etc.. ) Maybe you should explain this somewhere (in the H5P documentation) or, even better, next to the checkbox in H5P settings ?

thomasmars's picture

I have created an issue for documenting the settings on H5P.org, it is now in our backlog.

 

It's me again. So I turned off the button try on all my exercises. For the exercises can not be changed after validation. This is the case after validation. But if you reload the page , the answers are always recorded, but you can change them again ... How can I block the answers permanently?

Hi Lorin !

If you read Falcon's answer, you'll see that you can't prevent students from submitting new answers unless you develop something by yourself (see the technical note at the end of this post - something to do with leveraging the xAPI statement) : https://h5p.org/comment/4109#comment-4109).

If you disable the retry button, the student still can reload the page and submit new answers.
So you'll need to disable the "Show the solution" button as well if you use H5P activities for assessment's purposes.

Greetings,

Isa

 

oh, ok . I thought it was the retry button to stop that prevented changing answers. By removing the " see answers " button , this will prevent not change the answers , right?

Eh non ! (Nope... )

From what Falcon has explained in the post that I've quoted earlier and from my own experience, I gather that there is no "native" way to prevent students from submitting new answers and/or changing them - unless you develop by yourself what Falcon points out about "leveraging xAPI statements" (I don't know what this is about, actually but hey, I'm no developer ;)). This seems to be the only way to prevent student to retry an already tried activity.

As for me, I had to find another way of assessing my students. I came up with this : for all the activities that I've created, I've enabled the "retry button" and disabled the "Show the solution" button so that students can retry as much as they wish and they won't get the solution unless they figure it out by themselves.

As my users are (well... will be) only my own students, I'll explain them that they will have to get 100% of success to an activity to get this activity rewarded with a point. All other results (90%, 75%...) won't be taken into account. So if I assign to my students 8 short exercises to train on, they will have to retry as many times as they need until they get 100% of right answers to each exercise. If they get 100% to 6 exercises, they will get only 6/8. This "forces" them to train (because of the grade to get in the end, otherwise they won't even connect - I teach in a troubled suburb in Seine-Saint-Denis) and to train "well" - at least I hope ! It has a small drawback : I can only make short exercises so that it is possible to get 100% of right answers without burning your brain ;)

For the system (Plan de travail) that you have implemented on your website, I don't think that it is so terrible that the students can change their answers after having submitted them - if you disable the "Show the solutions" button. They can try and retry the same activity - if they don't get access to the solutions it's ok, isn't it ?

Greetings,

Isa

Thank you for your answer. The problem is that the answers possibilities are not infinite , and sometimes there are only two answers. So, if we are wrong , we put the other and it's over.

Indeed in that specific case it is a bummer ;( You should - if you have a developer nearby - investigate what Flacon pointed out about leveraging xAPI to prevent student from changing his answers. I'm sorry I can't help on this.... If you find anything I'm interested in you sharing your knowledge ;)

falcon's picture

H5P will get an "exam mode" where you can control the number of attempts and where it should be technically impossible to cheat. Currently it is not possible to achieve a limited number of retries without some custom coding.

 

excellent! I look forward !

So am I ! This is great news ;)

do the "exam mode" is being finalized or can you estimate the completion date?

For now everything works great and it is a pleasure to use this tool that evolves progressively

falcon's picture

We do not have an eta for that at the moment I'm afraid.

Hi maybe too soon but i wonder if there are already some plans for this exammode?

The topic is old, but ithought this is better then starting another one.

 

greetings,

Finn

Small school teacher.

tomaj's picture

Hi Finn,

There are unfortionatly no news on a exammode yet. "Backend evaluation of answers" which is listed as #7 on the roadmap, would need to be in place, to prevent cheating.

- Tom

*retry button

I was wondering whether something can be done by which only the score of the first attempt of a quiz is recorded. Even though retry is disabled students can refresh the page and attempt the question again and again. Since in questions like multiple choice questions and drag the words, student just has to refresh the page some couple of times and attempt the question again after refreshing till  the student gets the right answer.

BV52's picture

Hi Salmon Joy,

If you are using one of the supported frameworks (Drupal, Wordpress or Moodle) you can enable the "save content state". This feature saves the answers/results for most contents. 

-BV52

Thanks BV52 for taking out time to reply to my query.

I have "save content state" enabled but it doesn't seems to solve my problem

My actual concern is that when I do the following steps in Moodle

  1.  Add a activity in a course and select h5p
  2. Select Drag and Drop/Fill in the blanks/multiple choice questions/Drag the words/Mark the words/Image pairing/Flashcard/True or False/Finding the hotspot/image sequencing
  3. Input the question and answer for above mentioned types
  4. Disable retry
  5. Save the activity

Now when students attempt this activity I expect that they are not able to retry the question. But even after disabling retry students can attempt the question multiple times by just reloading the page. So using this logic student keeps on refreshing the page and attempting the question till they get the correct answer.

For example in a true of false question student selects True as the answer and clicks Check. When he/she sees that his/her answer is incorrect they just reload the page and attempt it again by selecting False. Since H5P upgrades the gradebook with the score of last attempt students uses this hack to get full marks. (I have attached a gif of the hack)

Same happens with Multiple choice, drag the words, drag and drop etc..

I can solve this issue in two ways

  1. Once students attempt a question they should not be able to attempt it again when they reload the page (as in case of single chioce/summary questions where reloading doen't help to attempt the question again)
  2. Only the score of the first attempt is recorded in the gradebook and the score of subsequent attempts are not updated in gradebook.

As far as I know there is no such build in option for any of these. So is there a way in which I can modify the code to implement any of these solutions? If so can you help me out with that code part?

Thanks in advance

Attachments: 
icc's picture

You are right, this is currently not possible with the Moodle plugin. I'm not sure how big of an issue this is for people or if they use some other plugin to get around it. It should not be too difficult to limit the number of attempts. I know some people log all the attempts to see the student's progression in an LRS.

Have there been any updates on this? Is the Exam Mode available now, or the "Backend evaluation of answers"?

BV52's picture

Hi sfokt,

Exam mode is still not available with H5Ps. For the backend evaluation of answers it is already in the Roadmap and it is only a matter of time until the core team releases this.

-BV52

grackle's picture

Hi all,

Curious to know how things are proceeding with "exam mode".  We are making the move to a new LMS and I am looking ahead to an enhanced role for H5P in our language classes.

Thanks.

Mike

BV52's picture

Hi Mike,

No updates yet from the H5P core team regarding this project.

-BV

grackle's picture

Thanks BV.  Is there anyway to confirm that it's on the road map?  Right now it seems to be "Secret".  ;-)

BV52's picture

Hi Mike,

I work with the H5P core team and this is definitely in the Roadmap however it is planned to be released for H5P.com customers only and I'm not sure if there are plans to include the plugins down the line.

The "Secret" was actually the H5P Conference that was scheduled May of last year but we all know what happened worldwide :-(

-BV

grackle's picture

Thanks so much for the quick reply BV.  My institution is currently in the process of evaluating the .com version, so it's great to hear that "exam mode" is in the works!  And yeah...we sure do know what happened worldwide.  These are some difficult times we're living in!

grackle's picture

Our migration to BrightSpace is well underway and I am discovering more about integration of H5P.com with the platform.  As I head into my first meeting with instructors tomorrow, I am wondering how to structure my comments about "Exam Mode".  At present, I know only that it is on the roadmap (which is awesome) but I don't have a time horizon to think about when it might be implemented.  My plan for tomorrow is to say that, if instructors are planning a scored quiz (summative assessment), they should use the native BrightSpace question types.  If they are planning to create activities like homework or something with lower stakes (formative assessment), they should use H5P.  And if they are looking for something in-between, they can use the H5P Quiz (Question Set) and select "first attempt" for the scoring.  But I would be curious to know more about where things are re "Exam Mode" and if there is anything that can be done by the user community to hurry the process along.  There is definitely an enthusiasm for it! 

BV52's picture

Hi Mike,

I'll follow up with the H5P core team regarding the "exam mode" however I might get back to you in time before your meeting tomorrow.

-BV

BV52's picture

Hi Mike,

Exam mode may take a while to be developed. New content types will most likely have the this feature but there needs to be some major development to create it for the older content types. There are no definite timelines, I'm afraid on when this will happen.

-BV